On the problem of John Chrysostom position on eschatology

 

On the problem of John Chrysostom position on eschatology

In her book, A Larger Hope, vol. 1, Ilaria Ramelli briefly speaks of the position of St. John Chrysostom (d. 407). She says:

“John Chrysostom himself, in Hom. Phlm. 3, insisted that Gehenna has an educative function: “But why do I speak of slaves, who easily fall into these sins? But let a man have sons, and let him allow them to do everything they want, and let him not punish them; will they not be worse than anything? Tell me, in the case of men then, it is a sign of goodness to punish, and of cruelty not to punish, and is it not so in the case of God? Since he is good, he has therefore prepared Gehenna.” Chrysostom, although he was not a consistent or explicit supporter of soteriological universalism, was viewed by Jerome as an Origenist sympathizer.” (A Larger Hope, vol.1, p. 162)

Unfortunately, Ramelli doesn’t in this book discuss with some depth Chrysostom, who had an immense influence on Christian history (he is considered a Doctor of the Church in Roman Catholicism and he is one of the ‘Three Holy Hierarchs’ alongside with St. Basil of Caesarea and St. Gregory of Nazianzus in Eastern Orthodoxy). The single quote she provides, indeed, seems to suggest that God’s punishments are akin to those of a father that punishes his sons and, arguably, this means that they are educative. Given that Gehenna is referenced, this quote by itself seems to point to an universalist view in Chrysostom.

Obviously, however, things are not so simple as we will see below, Chrysostom speaks often in terms that suggest a strong belief in the unendingness of torments. However, somewhat surprisingly enough, he also in some passages (including the one I quoted above) seems to give (unwittingly?) the idea that he had a more inclusive view of salvation. I won’t take position on whether Chrysostom was a believer in endless conscious torment or not. The traditional interpretation is that he was a firm believer in a populated unending hell of some kind and I am no aware of any pre-modern scholar that interpreted Chrysostom in an ‘universalist’ or ‘universalist-leaning’ way or that wrote that he was interpreted by some in this way by someone else (the reference of him being seen as ‘an Origenist sympathizer’, although interesting, isn’t in itself evidence…in any case this is supported by the fact that Chrysostom gave hospitality to Origenist monks as can be even read in the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom ). Any ‘revisionist’ reading of Chrysostom should take into account that. In any case, the textual evidence is, in my opinion, interesting (a similar textual analysis can be found in the section about John Chrysostom in this post: https://thechristianuniversalist.blogspot.com/2025/05/the-restoration-of-all-universalism-in_0319778369.html ).

I’ll let the reader decide.

John Chryosostom on the unendingness of hell (Gehenna)

Let’s start from two passages (among many) in which Chrysostom speaks explicitly of unending torments:

“1 Corinthians chapter 3, verse 12-15: If any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble; each man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire shall prove each man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.

This is no small subject of enquiry which we propose, but rather about things which are of the first necessity and which all men enquire about; namely, whether hell fire have any end. For that it hath no end Christ indeed declared when he said, "Their fire shall not be quenched, and their worm shall not die. [Mark chapter 8, verse 44 and Mark chapter 8, verse 46 and Mark chapter 8, verse 48]

Well: I know that a Chill comes over you (narkate) on hearing these things; but what am I to do? For this is God's own command, continually to sound these things in your ears, where He says, "Charge this people; (Fors. Exodus chapter 19, verses 10-20 diamarturai, Sept. here diasteilai,) and ordained as we have been unto the ministry of the word, we must give pain to our hearers, not willingly but on compulsion. Nay rather, if you will, we shall avoid giving you pain. For saith He, (Romans chapter 13, verse 3, in substance.) "if thou do that which is good, fear not:" so that it is possible for you to hear me not only without ill-will, but even with pleasure.

As I said then; that it hath no end, Christ has declared. Paul also saith, in pointing out the eternity of the punishment, that the sinners "shall pay the penalty of destruction, and that for ever" (2 Thessalonians chapter 1, verse 9) And again, (1 Corinthians chapter 6, verse 9) "Be not deceived; neither fornicators. nor adulterers, nor effeminate, shall inherit the the kingdom of God." And also unto the Hebrews he saith, (Hebrews chapter 12, verse 14) "Follow peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord." And Christ also, to those who said, "In thy Name we have done many wonderful works," saith, "Depart from Me, I know you not, ye workers of iniquity" (St. Matthew chapter 7, verse 22) And the virgins too who were shut out, entered in no more. And also about those who gave Him no food, He saith, (St. Matthew chapter 25, verse 46) "They shall go away into everlasting punishment."” (Homily 9 on 1 Corinthians; source: https://historicalchristian.faith/by_father.php?file=John%2520Chrysostom%2FHomilies%2FOn%25201%2520Corinthians%2FHomily%25209.html ; alternative translation: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/220109.htm )

“There are many men, who form good hopes not by abstaining from their sins, but by thinking that hell is not so terrible as it is said to be, but milder than what is threatened, and temporary, not eternal; and about this they philosophize much. But I could show from many reasons, and conclude from the very expressions concerning hell, that it is not only not milder, but much more terrible than is threatened. But I do not now intend to discourse concerning these things. For the fear even from bare words is sufficient, though we do not fully unfold their meaning. But that it is not temporary, hear Paul now saying, concerning those who know not God, and who do not believe in the Gospel, that "they shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction." How then is that temporary which is everlasting? "From the face of the Lord," he says. What is this? He here wishes to say how easily it might be. For since they were then much puffed up, there is no need, he says, of much trouble; it is enough that God comes and is seen, and all are involved in punishment deed will be Light, but to others vengeance.” (Homily 3 on 2 Thessalonians; source: https://historicalchristian.faith/by_father.php?file=John%2520Chrysostom%2FHomilies%2FOn%25202%2520Thessalonians%2FHomily%25203.html ; another translation: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/23053.htm )

John Chryosostom on prayers on behalf of the departed

The following excerpt, instead, is about the prayers on behalf of the departed:

“[8.] "But I know not whither he hath gone," say you. Wherefore knowest thou not, tell me? For according as he lived well or otherwise, it is evident whither he will go. "Nay, on this very account I lament," say you, "because he departed being a sinner." This is a mere pretext and excuse. For if this were the reason of thy mourning for the departed, thou oughtest to have formed and corrected him, when he was alive. The fact is thou dost every where look to what concerns thyself, not him.

But grant that he departed with sin upon him, even on this account one ought to rejoice, that he was stopped short in his sins and added not to his iniquity; and help him as far as possible, not by tears, but by prayers and supplications and alms and offerings. For not unmeaningly have these things been devised, nor do we in vain make mention of the departed in the course of the divine mysteries, and approach God in their behalf, beseeching the Lamb Who is before us, Who taketh away the sin of the world;-not in vain, but that some refreshment may thereby ensue to them. Not in vain cloth he that standeth by the altar cry out when the tremendous mysteries are celebrated, "For all that have fallen asleep in Christ, and for those who perform commemorations in their behalf." For if there were no commemorations for them, these things would not have been spoken: since our service is not a mere stage show, God forbid! yea, it is by the ordinance of the Spirit that these things are done.

Let us then give them aid and perform commemoration for them. For if the children of Job were purged by the sacrifice of their father, why dost thou doubt that when we too offer for the departed, some consolation arises to them? since God is wont to grant the petitions of those who ask for others. And this Paul signified saying, "that in a manifold Person your gift towards us bestowed by many may be acknowledged with thanksgiving on your behalf." (2 Corinthians chapter 1, verse 11) Let us not then be weary in giving aid to the departed, both by offering on their behalf and obtaining prayers for them: for the common Expiation of the world is even before us. Therefore with boldness do we then intreat for the whole world, and name their names with those of martyrs, of confessors, of priests. For in truth one body are we all, though some members are more glorious than others; and it is possible from every source to gather pardon for them, from our prayers, from our gifts in their behalf, from those whose names are named with theirs. Why therefore dost thou grieve? Why mourn, when it is in thy power to gather so much pardon for the departed?” (Homily 41 on 1 Corinthians, source: https://historicalchristian.faith/by_father.php?file=John%2520Chrysostom%2FHomilies%2FOn%25201%2520Corinthians%2FHomily%252041.html  ; alternative translation: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/220141.htm )

John Chryosostom the Church as all mankind

The following is taken from the third homily on the Epistle to the Colossians in which the identification of the ‘Church’ with the whole race of mankind is suggestive:

“So that in generation also He is first. And this is what Paul is chiefly endeavoring to show. For if this be made good, that He was before all the Angels; then there is brought in along with it this also as a consequence, that He did their works by commanding them. And what is indeed wonderful, he makes a point to show that He is first in the later generation. Although elsewhere he calls Adam first (1 Cor. xv. 45), as in truth he is; but here he takes the Church for the whole race of mankind. For He is first of the Church; and first of men after the flesh, like as of the Creation. And therefore he here uses the word "firstborn."

…

And observe, I pray you, the marvel in this: He brought these first down hither, and then he took up man to them; earth became heaven, because that heaven was about to receive the things of earth. Therefore when we give thanks, we say, "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will to men." Behold, he saith, even men appeared well-pleasing to Him thereafter. What is "good will"? (Eph. ii. 14; Deut. xxxii. 8, Sept.) Reconciliation. No longer is the heaven a wall of partition. At first the Angels were according to the number of the nations; but now, not to the number of the nations, but that of the believers. Whence is this evident? Hear Christ saying, "See that ye despise not one of these little ones, for their Angels do always behold the face of My Father which is in heaven." (Matt. xviii. 10) For each believer hath an Angel; since even from the beginning, every one of those that were approved had his Angel, as Jacob says, "The Angel that feedeth me, and delivereth me from my youth." (Gen. xlviii. 15, xlviii. 16, nearly) If then we have Angels, let us be sober, as though we were in the presence of tutors; for there is a demon present also. Therefore we pray, asking for the Angel of peace, and everywhere we ask for peace (for there is nothing equal to this); peace, in the Churches, in the prayers, in the supplications, in the salutations; and once, and twice, and thrice, and many times, does he that is over the Church give it, "Peace be unto you." Wherefore? Because this is the Mother of all good things; this is the foundation of joy. Therefore Christ also commanded the Apostles on entering into the houses straightway to say this, as being a sort of symbol of the good things; for He saith, "When ye come into the houses, say, Peace be unto you;" for where this is wanting, everything is useless. And to His disciples Christ said, "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give unto you." (John xiv. 27.) This prepareth the way for love. And he that is over the Church, says not, "Peace be unto you," simply, but "Peace be unto all." For what if with this man we have peace, but with another, war and fighting? what is the gain? For neither in the body, should some of its elements be at rest and others in a state of variance, is it possible that health should ever be upheld; but only when the whole of them are in good order, and harmony, and peace, and except the whole are at rest, and continue within their proper limits, all will be overturned. And, further, in our minds, except all our thoughts are at rest, peace will not exist. So great a good is peace, as that the makers and producers of it are called the sons of God (Matt. v. 9, Matt. v. 45), with reason; because the Son of God for this cause came upon the earth, to set at peace the things in the earth, and those in the heavens. But if the peacemakers are the sons of God, the makers of disturbance are sons of the devil.

What sayest thou? Dost thou excite contentions and fightings? And doth any ask who is so unhappy? Many there are who rejoice at evil, and who do rather rend in pieces the Body of Christ, than did the soldiers pierce it with the spear, or the Jews who struck it through with the nails. A less evil was that than this; those Members, so cut through, again united, but these when torn off, if they be not united here, will never be united, but remain apart from the Fullness. When thou art minded to war against thy brother, bethink thee that thou warrest against the members of Christ, and cease from thy madness. For what if he be an outcast? What if he be vile? What if he be open to contempt? So saith He, "It is not the will of My Father that one of these little ones should perish." (Matt. xviii. 14) And again, "Their Angels do always behold the face of My Father which is in heaven." (Ib. ver. 10) God for his sake and thine even became a servant, and was slain; and dost thou consider him to be nothing? Surely in this respect also thou fightest against God, in that thou deliverest a judgment contrary to His. When he that is over the Church cometh in, he straightway says, "Peace unto all"; when he preacheth, "Peace unto all"; when he blesseth, "Peace unto all"; when he biddeth to salute, "Peace unto all"; when the Sacrifice is finished, "Peace unto all": and again, in the middle, "Grace to you and peace." How then is it not monstrous, if, while hearing so many times that we are to have peace, we are in a state of feud with each other; and receiving peace, and giving it back, are at war with him that giveth it to us? Thou sayest, "And to thy spirit." And dost thou traduce him abroad? Woe is me! that the majestic usages of the Church are become forms of things merely, not a truth. Woe is me! that the watchwords of this army proceed no farther than to be only words. Whence also ye are ignorant wherefore is said, "Peace unto all." But hear what follows, what Christ saith; "And into whatsoever city or village ye shall enter ...as ye enter into the house, salute it; and if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you." (Matt. x. 11, Matt. x. 13.) We are therefore ignorant; because we look upon this merely as a figure of words; and we assent not to them in our minds. For do I give the Peace? It is Christ who deigneth to speak by us. Even if at all other times we are void of grace, yet are we not now, for your sakes. For if the Grace of God wrought in an ass and a diviner, for the sake of an economy, and the advantage of the Israelites (Num. 22), it is quite clear that it will not refuse to operate even in us, but for your sakes will endure even this.” (Homily 3 on Colossians; source: https://historicalchristian.faith/by_father.php?file=John%2520Chrysostom%2FHomilies%2FOn%2520Colossians%2FHomily%25203.html )

John Chryosostom on the educative punishments of hell? (Gehenna)

And finally, we get at this excerpt from the third homily on the epistle to Philemon who was quoted in a smaller excerpt by Ramelli:

“How then? you say: what is the lovingkindness of God, if He is not about to save the bad? For oftentimes I hear many talking in this way, that He is the Friend of man, and will by all means save all. That we may not therefore vainly deceive ourselves, (for I remember that I made a promise of this kind to you,) come let us to-day move this argument. I lately discoursed with you about Hell, and I deferred my argument upon the lovingkindness of God. It is proper therefore to-day to resume it. That there will, then, be a hell, we have, as I think, sufficiently proved, bringing forward the deluge, and former evils, and arguing that it is not possible that He who performed these things should leave the men of the present age unpunished. For if thus He chastised those who sinned before the Law, He will not let those go unpunished who after grace have committed greater wickedness. It has been questioned therefore how is He good? how merciful to man, if at least He punishes? and we have deferred the argument, that we might not overwhelm your ears with a multitude of words.

Come, to-day let us discharge the debt, and show how good is God, even in punishing. For this discourse would be suitable for us in opposition to the heretics. Let us therefore pay earnest heed to it. God, standing in no need of anything from us, yet created us. For that He stood in need of us, is manifest from His having made us after a long time. For He might have made us long ago, if He had needed us. For if He Himself was, even without us, and we were made in later times, He made us, not needing us.

He made the Heaven, the earth, the sea, all things that exist, for our sake. Tell me, are not these marks of goodness? And many things one might mention. But to cut short the matter, "He maketh the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matt. v. 45.) Is not this a mark of goodness? No, you say. For I said once in conversing with a Marcionite, Are not these things a mark of goodness? and he answered, If He did not call men to account for their sins, it were a mark of goodness. But if He calls them to account, it is not goodness. That man, however, is not now present. But come, let us repeat what was then said, and more beside. For I, out of my superfluity, show that if He did not call men to account, He would not be good; but because He does call them to account, therefore He is good.

For, say, if He did not call us to account, would human life then have endured? Should we not then have fallen into the state of beasts? For if when there is this fear impending over us, and the giving account, and judgments, we have gone beyond fishes in devouring one another, we have thrown wolves and lions into the shade in ravaging one another's possessions; if He did not call us to account, and we were persuaded of this, with how great tumult and confusion would life be filled? What would be the fabled labyrinth after this, compared with the perplexities of the world? Would you not see numberless indecencies and disorders? For who then would have respected his father any more? Or who would have spared his mother? Who would have left unattempted any pleasure, any wickedness? And that the matter is so, I will endeavor to show you from one house only. How? You who raise these questions and who have servants; if I could make it manifest to these, that if they should destroy the family of their masters, if they should insult their persons, if they should plunder everything, if they should turn things upside down, if they should treat them as enemies, they would not threaten them, nor correct them, nor punish them, nor even grieve them with a word, would this be any proof of goodness? I maintain that this is the extreme of cruelty, not only because the wife and children are betrayed by this unreasonable kindness, but because the slaves themselves are destroyed before them. For they will be drunkards, wanton, dissolute, and more irrational than any beasts. Is this, tell me, a proof of goodness, to trample upon the noble nature of the soul, and to destroy both themselves and others beside? Seest thou that to call men to account is a proof of great goodness? But why do I speak of slaves, who more readily fall into these sins? But let a man have sons, and let him permit them to do everything they will, and let him not punish them; will they not be worse than anything? tell me. In the case of men then, it is a mark of goodness to punish, and of cruelty not to punish, and is it not so in the case of God? So that because He is good, therefore He has prepared a hell.” (Homily 3 on Philemon; source: https://historicalchristian.faith/by_father.php?file=John%2520Chrysostom%2FHomilies%2FOn%2520Philemon%2FHomily%25203.html; another translation: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/23093.htm  )

The reference about hell/Gehenna might just indicate that, according to Chrysostom, God is good because He justly punishes sinners and this, a priori, might indicate that Chrysostom meant that if (unrepentant) people deserve unending torments, God is good if He punishes them in that way (and the first paragraph might be an indication of this). However, just before mentioning hell in the last line he speaks of a man who punishes his sons and this might be suggestive of a pedagogical intent.